http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w00M139X ... r_embedded
Kaveri putta. analyysia odotellessa
Pimp my Putt
Valvoja: HALLITUS
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jiiärrä
- Viestit: 919
- Liittynyt: To 20 Elo 2009, 21:41
- Oikea nimi: Janne Räsänen
- Seura: Talin Tallaajat
Re: Pimp my Putt
Tere ma en puhu Eestin keelt. The better you are at putting the more dangerous it can be to modify throwing technique but it may unlock an even better level of performance. So you need to practice the way you do now to not let that deteriorate while trying out new things so that you won't suffer if the new form does not suite you or produces worse results.
The way many Finnish top players and the guy in the video hang the wrist down has pros and cons and it is a situational and philosophical style matter how you attack the game and if that is the best way to putt. Generally speaking hanging the wrist low raises the power requirement of the putt for the same distance. Thus also reducing the maximum distance where you can reach the basket at enough height. That is doubled by the hyzer angle which reduces the glide of the disc. And here comes the philosophical choice between styles. How often do you want to attack the putt from which distances and what is your hit rate and how far off you are willing to miss when you do?
Naturally the nose down hyzer angle drops the disc fast so the disc will not blow by the basket far. An 80 degree hyzer thrown high moving extra slowly back to front would stop nearer the basket and a laser putt would miss the farthest. An s-curving tall nose up putt would stay close to the basket in case of a miss while remaining at the correct height for the longest percentage of the flight. An additional benefit for the s-curve is that the disc is flying toward the chains in an angle that catches the largest portion of the chains in the height that drops the disc to the basket. Also the spin of the disc is pulling the disc toward the bottom of the basket minimizing the chance of bouncing out.
Things are very different at 5 meter intervals from the basket and using only one form can be more difficult than using two styles with the best possible pro/con ratio for their respective distances. The flatter the putt the better it resist getting pushed around by the wind. A laser putt at short enough ranges does not need any aiming offset to the side or up so it is the simplest possible putt. It diminishes the chances of making mental errors. At longer ranges where a laser starts to putt you can get away with raising the arm a little like the guy in the video did. If you also raise the height where the disc is released the disc can go so far that any longer attempts are approach throws. For which s-curves are the safest with the best chance of making the putt.
I may be wrong but it seems that finger spring is somewhat lacking. Finger spring is the last thing you do when the disc is in the hand. You straighten the fingers fast pointing at the aiming point. Finger springs adds to distance, accuracy and consistency when you get familiar with it and it is beneficial for every putting style. Another useful tip for each style is to push the pelvis at the aiming point fast just before the arm starts to rise.
I'm not knocking wrist down putting because there is a time and a place for each normal putting style. There wouldn't be so many styles if each of the didn't have some benefits. The greatest benefit to a wrist down putt is that the disc can stop close to the basket in case of a miss which is crucial when there is downhill or OB behind the target. In my opinion reducing the blow by distance is not such a great reason to adopt that technique because there are cons other forms don't have and why is missing 6-9 meters bad for such a good putter as the guy in the video? If a flat disc hits more often shouldn't you concentrate on making as many first putts? If the make rate from 9 meters is so good how often do you really miss the comeback putt considering how rarely the first putt misses in the first place?
People putt differently when tired or under pressure. If the head game is fine only the physical fatigue reduces performance. Not knowing how fit the player in the video is and how rested he can be entering tournaments it is difficult to say which form gives him overall best make rates. He needs to follow that on his own for months to see which form is the best for him in multiple round tournaments. Generally speaking you have to be fitter for consistent hyzer or nose down putting because the form falls apart when you don't punch hard with the arm. Over 5 meter laser putts also need a very quick loose arm muscle usage to get the disc off of the fingers before the elbow gets straight. Failing that the wrist will break right each time. Finding optimum performance for each form at their best ranges takes work and in time the arm can accelerate harder. The more the better for accuracy. S-curves at longer ranges reduce the required muscle power a lot sparing you to be much fresher and accurate even in the later rounds.
Because there are so many things you have to consider it is not weird that people get good results with so many different forms. I suggest learning at least two styles and also a straddle stance because you will eventually have trees in the way that you can avoid only by stepping to the side of the trunk.
Whatever you do have fun and be relaxed in trying out new forms. The more you fret the worse you will execute the throwing motion and then you'll get false results and can discard a form as poor when the only thing wrong was what you did. This means you need to try out new things many times on different days and also when you are totally rested and warmed up.
The way many Finnish top players and the guy in the video hang the wrist down has pros and cons and it is a situational and philosophical style matter how you attack the game and if that is the best way to putt. Generally speaking hanging the wrist low raises the power requirement of the putt for the same distance. Thus also reducing the maximum distance where you can reach the basket at enough height. That is doubled by the hyzer angle which reduces the glide of the disc. And here comes the philosophical choice between styles. How often do you want to attack the putt from which distances and what is your hit rate and how far off you are willing to miss when you do?
Naturally the nose down hyzer angle drops the disc fast so the disc will not blow by the basket far. An 80 degree hyzer thrown high moving extra slowly back to front would stop nearer the basket and a laser putt would miss the farthest. An s-curving tall nose up putt would stay close to the basket in case of a miss while remaining at the correct height for the longest percentage of the flight. An additional benefit for the s-curve is that the disc is flying toward the chains in an angle that catches the largest portion of the chains in the height that drops the disc to the basket. Also the spin of the disc is pulling the disc toward the bottom of the basket minimizing the chance of bouncing out.
Things are very different at 5 meter intervals from the basket and using only one form can be more difficult than using two styles with the best possible pro/con ratio for their respective distances. The flatter the putt the better it resist getting pushed around by the wind. A laser putt at short enough ranges does not need any aiming offset to the side or up so it is the simplest possible putt. It diminishes the chances of making mental errors. At longer ranges where a laser starts to putt you can get away with raising the arm a little like the guy in the video did. If you also raise the height where the disc is released the disc can go so far that any longer attempts are approach throws. For which s-curves are the safest with the best chance of making the putt.
I may be wrong but it seems that finger spring is somewhat lacking. Finger spring is the last thing you do when the disc is in the hand. You straighten the fingers fast pointing at the aiming point. Finger springs adds to distance, accuracy and consistency when you get familiar with it and it is beneficial for every putting style. Another useful tip for each style is to push the pelvis at the aiming point fast just before the arm starts to rise.
I'm not knocking wrist down putting because there is a time and a place for each normal putting style. There wouldn't be so many styles if each of the didn't have some benefits. The greatest benefit to a wrist down putt is that the disc can stop close to the basket in case of a miss which is crucial when there is downhill or OB behind the target. In my opinion reducing the blow by distance is not such a great reason to adopt that technique because there are cons other forms don't have and why is missing 6-9 meters bad for such a good putter as the guy in the video? If a flat disc hits more often shouldn't you concentrate on making as many first putts? If the make rate from 9 meters is so good how often do you really miss the comeback putt considering how rarely the first putt misses in the first place?
People putt differently when tired or under pressure. If the head game is fine only the physical fatigue reduces performance. Not knowing how fit the player in the video is and how rested he can be entering tournaments it is difficult to say which form gives him overall best make rates. He needs to follow that on his own for months to see which form is the best for him in multiple round tournaments. Generally speaking you have to be fitter for consistent hyzer or nose down putting because the form falls apart when you don't punch hard with the arm. Over 5 meter laser putts also need a very quick loose arm muscle usage to get the disc off of the fingers before the elbow gets straight. Failing that the wrist will break right each time. Finding optimum performance for each form at their best ranges takes work and in time the arm can accelerate harder. The more the better for accuracy. S-curves at longer ranges reduce the required muscle power a lot sparing you to be much fresher and accurate even in the later rounds.
Because there are so many things you have to consider it is not weird that people get good results with so many different forms. I suggest learning at least two styles and also a straddle stance because you will eventually have trees in the way that you can avoid only by stepping to the side of the trunk.
Whatever you do have fun and be relaxed in trying out new forms. The more you fret the worse you will execute the throwing motion and then you'll get false results and can discard a form as poor when the only thing wrong was what you did. This means you need to try out new things many times on different days and also when you are totally rested and warmed up.
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VesaH
- Viestit: 54
- Liittynyt: Pe 19 Loka 2012, 20:48
- Oikea nimi: Vesa Huotelin
- Seura: Talin Tallaajat
Re: Pimp my Putt
Kas, Pimp my Butt -ketjukin löytyi, siispä maanatai-aamun (7:15) meininkiä:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1la5uUtl1aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1la5uUtl1aw
Re: Pimp my Putt
VesaH kirjoitti:Kas, Pimp my Butt -ketjukin löytyi, siispä maanatai-aamun (7:15) meininkiä:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1la5uUtl1aw
Hirveästi en muuttais mitään, saattaa mennä ohi muuten...
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jiiärrä
- Viestit: 919
- Liittynyt: To 20 Elo 2009, 21:41
- Oikea nimi: Janne Räsänen
- Seura: Talin Tallaajat
Re: Pimp my Putt
It's not how it's how many. Joten yhdyn edelliseen kommenttiin tuolta osalta, että jos mikään ei ole rikki, kannattaa miettiä, montako hiomiskertaa kannattaa tehdä siihen päälle. Jos tositilanteessa on tuota huonompaa tulostaso, voi olla paikallaan muuttaa tekniikkaa. Silloin voisi testata, mitä tapahtuu tarkkuudelle ja toistettavuudelle, kun ottaa käden liikkeestä vähän tehoa pois ja korvaa sen tai jopa ylittää nykyisen kokonaistehontuoton tyrkkäämällä voimallisesti ja nopeasti lantion eteen niin, että ryhti on pystyssä, kun kiekko irtoaa. Silloin liikkeet nopeutuvat ja tehon tuoton kasvaessa takajalan pitäisi liikkua nopeammin ja kauemmas taakse tasapainon ylläpitämiseksi. Tällä hetkellä selkä taittuu eteen lantiosta ja se pudottaa kiekon lähtökorkeutta lisäten tehon tarvetta ja syöden tehon tuottoa keskiruumiin suurista lihaksista. Lisäksi etukenossa roikkuminen rasittaa ristiselkää, mikä voi kunnosta riippuen muodostua ongelmaksi kierroksen tai kisan edetessä. Varsinkin neljän päivän majoreissa. Minne kuuluu tuolla puttaustasolla jo nyt.
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VesaH
- Viestit: 54
- Liittynyt: Pe 19 Loka 2012, 20:48
- Oikea nimi: Vesa Huotelin
- Seura: Talin Tallaajat
Re: Pimp my Putt
Jos nyt sattui menemään 8/8 niin ei se vielä 100% puttia meinaa, aina voi olla vähän parempi. Ihan hyvää analyysiä lantion käytöstä, voisin pohtia asiaa pidemmillä etäisyyksillä. Kun väsymys iskee, alkaa alarauta löytyä, mutta sitä olen pitänyt lähinnä spin-puttaajan kaverina. Selvästi todennäköisin missi on juuri alaraudassa, minkä takia varsinaiset yli kahden putin rallit alkaa olemaan jo harvinaisia. Väsymys on lähinnä kokonaisvaltaista. Ja sit tietty paineen alla kasetti joskus menee kolmessa metrissä.
Jostain 12 metristä lähtien käden liike alkaa olemaan jo brutaalimpi, ja sekottaa tähtäystä aikalailla. Oon sit kompensoinut siirtämällä tähtäystä hieman oikealle ja ylemmäs ja antanut wizardin feidata koriin. Läpikävelty/yliastuttu putti on vielä vasta kokeiluasteella ilman mainittavaa sukseeta.
Jostain 12 metristä lähtien käden liike alkaa olemaan jo brutaalimpi, ja sekottaa tähtäystä aikalailla. Oon sit kompensoinut siirtämällä tähtäystä hieman oikealle ja ylemmäs ja antanut wizardin feidata koriin. Läpikävelty/yliastuttu putti on vielä vasta kokeiluasteella ilman mainittavaa sukseeta.
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jajvirta
- Viestit: 69
- Liittynyt: To 24 Touko 2012, 13:01
- Oikea nimi: Jarno Virtanen
- Seura: Tampereen Frisbeeseura
Re: Pimp my Putt
Tässä mun putti. Etäisyys on about 7 metriä. Kuvakulma hassu eikä tuosta paljoa näe. Mut tommonen se on. Inan hyssessä menee usein.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrH3GC8i ... e=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrH3GC8i ... e=youtu.be
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jiiärrä
- Viestit: 919
- Liittynyt: To 20 Elo 2009, 21:41
- Oikea nimi: Janne Räsänen
- Seura: Talin Tallaajat
Re: Pimp my Putt
Yleensä putissa ei tarvitse tuottaa hirveästi tehoa, vaan hirveästi tarkkuutta ja toistettavuutta. Näillä rajoilla tapoja on monia ja kannattaa käyttää sellaista tapaa, joka tuntuu helpolta ja rennolta joka paikassa ruumista koko heiton ajan. Kokeilisin lantion työntämistä kohti kohdetta niin, että olet pystymmässä kiekon irrotessa. Lantion työntö lisää tehon tuottoa ja kiekko irtoaa korkeammalta, joten kädellä ei tarvitse tuottaa niin paljon tehoa. Yleensä tekniikalla kuin tekniikalla käden kiihdytys nopeasti lopussa lisää tarkkuutta niin kauan kuin ei runno aivan täydellä vauhdilla. 80-90 % maksimista voi toimia joillekin, joilekin menee enemmän toisille vähemmän tehoa. Kannattaa päättää, minkälaista kiihdytysajankohtaa ja kiihdytystahtia sen perusteella, miten usein kiekko jää koriin ja miten kaukaa osut koriin. Käden saaton pituutta voi kokeilla kasvattaa myös. Jotkut vievät saaton korvan viereen.